Pastel Greene ([info]chardarkminion) wrote,
@ 2005-08-11 19:44:00
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Current mood: calm
Current music:Belle and Sebastien, Lazy Line Painter Jane
Entry tags:politics

This post is both personal and political. Its about my own observations and a strong call for those who read this to be a shade wiser and a shade shrewder.

I just finished reading a phenominal article, The Christian Nation Myth (thanks [info]paigegirl). I think everyone should read this, if for no other reason than the fact that its really quite interesting. But it has helped me put things in perspective. This is a rationalist nation, first and foremost. Thats one of the things I love about this country. Maybe the biggest thing. But what we have right now is a seperate, usurper government. The real American government is in exile. This is the political content of this post.

But really, I want to give a personal message. More like a declaration. I despise superstition. This is true. I've been accused of being self riteous because I feel this way, but thats not it at all. I don't derive satisfaction from having this position. I just hate (with every fiber of my being) when good, intelligent people throw out reason in favor primitive leaps of logic. God help the poor bastard who points out the inconsistencies in these backwards idiosyncrises. Thats a quick way to lose friends, because for some reason superstitions are also open wounds to most people. Their egos are bound up in points that cannot be defended with argument. Emotion is substituted for logic, and emotion as the basis of argument leads to crude arguments.

Maybe I'm intolerant or even bigotted on this point. I leave that possibility open. I can't say that I've ever walked a mile in the shoes of a practicing Jew or attempted to curse a coworker with voodoo. Of course, I don't brand my genitals with lit cigars either, and I still call that idiotic.

Some of my favorite people on the planet are extremely superstitious. I don't blame them personally. I don't blame anyone, because its not an issue of blame. I just wish they could free themselves from the equivalent of beleiving that the earth is flat and that the sun gets swallowed by a giant celestial serpent every day around 7 pm. Is there a way to show these people that their egos are attached to crutches that prevent them from ever being able to walk? How can you tell a person that their relgion is backwards? How can you tell the cave dwellers from 20,000 years ago that drawing caribou on the walls of their cave does nothing to improve their hunt's chances of success? We obviously don't beleive that one anymore. Why is it so hard for people to accept that Christ, the afterlife, and personal 'life force' will be just as extinct one day as the animism of the cave people?

I like how Thomas Jefferson puts it.

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes" (Tell this to the big religions)

"To talk of immaterial existences is to talk of nothings. To say that the human soul, angels, God, are immaterial is to say they are nothings, or that there is no God, no angels, no soul. I cannot reason otherwise" (Tell this to the New Agers)

"And the day will come when the mystical generation of Jesus, by the supreme being as his father in the womb of a virgin, will be classed with the fable of the generation of Minerva in the brain of Jupiter" (Tell this to the American Taliban)

Damn, Thomas Jefferson was one smart guy. He founded the world's greatest government on exactly these principles. Somehow, the descendants of the New England witch-hunters have rested control from the philosopher kings. I don't beleive that all the superstitious people of this age are as bad as the witch-hunters. As I said before, many of them are my friends. However, I don't beleive that rejecting reason is acceptable.

I always thought that the saying "In the sleep of reason, monsters are born." I liked the idea that reason takes a break and allows wonderous beasts to be birthed into the world. I have always been a fan of the monsterous, and damn reason if it gets in the way! The truth of the matter is that I never really understood what this means. The saying could just as easily read "In the sleep of reason, ethnic cleansing is born." Unfortunately, in an age with collosal industrial machines capable of creating machines to send mankind beyond the Earth itself, we also have the capability to turn this vast machine and its power to attrocity. Add into this the limitless power of mass media and you have a fragile system that can, within the shortest blink of time, wipe out entire populations.

It is precisely this reason that we have to reject all the bad arguments and emotional appeals. If we don't use our heads and turn towards reason, humanity will suffer. Do I sound too lofty? Maybe I am. The truth of the matter is that right now we have a country stewing in our own superstitions, causing all sorts of mayhem. "They hate us for our freedom!" they tell us. Aside from having less freedom than quiet, cold places in Europe, the basic elements of this are untrue. This is assigning motives where none exist. This is personifying a threat that doesn't exist. Its useful to those in power, because they can use this to sway opinion quickly and in their favor whenever it is needed. It means that we lose freedoms and love it the whole time.

How can I equate this with little, daily superstitions that most people hold? The net effect isn't the same, which is clear. But when one denial of logic is allowed, it becomes comfortable and acceptable. New Agers often say that all relgious beleifs are acceptable and that everyone ultimately worships the same force in the universe, even if they do it through different ways. I hate to say it, but this is utter bullshit. Don't agree? I don't think female circumcision is acceptable, and its frequently practiced as a religious issue. I don't care what motivations are put on it, female circumcision is unnacceptable. The values are not equal. On the other side, there is no difference between one branch of secular humanism and another. There doesn't need to be an attempt to bring one brand into another. It just requires a focus on reason and a rejection of nonsensicle, ancient customs.

Obviously, I'de think we'de all be better off rejecting religion, petty beleif in the supernatural, and any kind of superstition, no matter how small. I don't beleive this should be forced. I just think that people should wise up. They should stop paying attention to the silly fairy tales about father figures in the sky. This includes people who think that the father figure packed up and moved on. Deism was fine for George Washington and Aristotle, before mankind realized that it really was alone in the universe, but in a world where we send people into outer-friggin-space thats no longer acceptable. Give up on these ego-infused emotion responses. They really aren't doing anything for you. Throw away the backwards animism.

Also, numerous images below the LJ cut. Its been a long time, Livejournal.





























Also, throw a me a comment. I'de like to see where people stand on this.




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[info]spirella
2005-08-12 01:20 am UTC (link)
hahaha that second to last image must be a reference to katamari damacy

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 01:26 am UTC (link)
Its from the Japanese commercial for Katamari Damacy. Looking forward to the sequel!

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[info]teague
2005-08-12 01:25 am UTC (link)
I'm pretty much with you, on your thought process. I really have problems sometimes relating to those I refer to as Superstitionists. I've had the most amusing argument with one young woman where I ended it saying, "Wouldn't it just piss you off if you died, and went to heaven....and God looked like a huge one celled organism?" She huffed and walked away, so I considered that a win.

For the most part I have no problem with religion. What I can't stand is evangelizing. I'm always tempted to say, "Go sell crazy somewhere else." What's ironic is that I *do* believe there is energies that bind us that we cannot yet measure, or understand. Science has recorded plenty of evidence of human mind over body, and i'm not just talking psychic stuff. The human will can influance it's surroundings greatly. It's always simplest to just give God the credit for that. Hey, what ever gets you up in the morning.

But the philosophy that kills me the most is the whole, progress is of the Devil ideology. What? Are you kidding me? Let's assume for the sake of argument that there is an all loving, benevolent Father God sitting up on some cloud somewhere, loving each and every one of us. Do you *honestly* think he'd condemn you to Hell for getting a blood transfusion? He's supposed to love us.

No, I think that more emphasis should be placed on becoming a better civilization than ultimately meaningless and arbitrary gestures of affection towards a subjective universal Ego.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 01:30 am UTC (link)
I do have a problem with the 'universal human energy' thing. I guess its pretty benign compared to the "YHVH Will Burn Your Anus Forever" superstition, but I think its still a superstition.

Most people who beleive in personal life force beleive that science has somehow accepted and proven this. I have no idea where this idea got started, but I have never, Never, NEVER seen any reputable scientific organization publish anything on the idea of 'human energy'.

Not trying to be argumentative or anything, but the life force thing sounds like New Agers attempting to make humanity the center of the universe. Its a lot like putting the Earth at the center of the universe. Our planet is really nothing special and neither is our species.

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[info]teague
2005-08-12 01:40 am UTC (link)
I'm not talking about cosmic muffinry...I'm talking about such things as Lance Armstrong beating cancer, and going on to do the things he's doing. That's not magicical, but not everyone taps into what he's tapped into. Not even people with the same amount of money to throw at it has the same will to not just survive, but get back up to the same level.

I might've picked some sentimental words with the "Binding us together" thing, but it's a matter of that we do share bonds of love, and experience, and these ideas help create that driving force, and inspiration to overcome personal bounderies that are statisticly hard to overcome.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 01:54 am UTC (link)
Well, I guess thats proven by science in some respect. People who are happy (ie, less stress) live longer, after all. Thats entirely reasonable. I just hear people make collosal leaps of logic based on entirely reasonable facts like this.

There are a lot of people who beleive that prayer is a substitute to medical treatment. Close friends of mine beleive that they can make their way in the world with no effort on their part. Just a good attitude and judicious use of ritual. Its the same justification and the same result. Its this sort of thing that I really despise. Good intentions do not yeild good results.

This is maybe the main thing that annoys me so much. I have been told often and with force that I have 'a bad attitude' and that this is why bad things have happened/are happening/will happen to me. Now obviously, because I am not as happy a person as say, Lance Armstrong, I probably won't live as long. Not to mention the fact that he is the pinnacle of human health whereas I'm an out of shape dude with an allergy for everything. Thats neither here nor there though.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the human mind really doesn't have that huge effect on our physical selves. Stress level is the closest thing that really comes to mind, and even this is purely scientific because it involves increased cortisol (the stress hormone) levels. Even thought is merely a physical and chemical process. All animals do that.

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[info]littlezephyr
2005-08-12 06:05 am UTC (link)
I guess what I'm trying to say is that the human mind really doesn't have that huge effect on our physical selves. Stress level is the closest thing that really comes to mind, and even this is purely scientific because it involves increased cortisol (the stress hormone) levels. Even thought is merely a physical and chemical process. All animals do that.


I have to disagree with you on that. I don't believe that the human mind has any special talent to affect its surroundings, but I do believe that the condition of the body is incredibly connected to the condition of the mind. It's simply that a healthier mind generally leads to action that improves the health of the body: a positive mental state will often lead to a positive phsyical condition.

If I'm depressed and feel like shit I'm going to lay in bed, eat too much food, sleep far too long and end up hurting my mental health more. If I have a positive mental state, I'm going to go outside, eat properly, and focus creatively and intellectualy. It's a sort of bio-feedback loop.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 06:11 am UTC (link)
Thats precisely what I'm saying. Thats totally rational and backed up by volumes of science. It just makes sense. I'm talking about people who say that if you say something bad is going to happen, then it -will- happen. Thats assinine, and its what pisses me off.

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[info]catholicpsyche
2005-08-12 03:47 pm UTC (link)


Agreed.

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[info]ambiance_zebra
2005-08-12 02:50 pm UTC (link)
It HAS been a long damn time, man. I thought something was wrong with my friends page.

You're dead on with this one, though. I saw a poll the other day that said only about 28% of Americans believe in evolution, about 60% in literal creationism (whether they believe in the first or second version of creation presented in the Bible, it didn't say), and about 10% in the insidious intelligent design theory.

In fact, according to Michael Schermer, 1/4 of medical school students are creationists. Something I'd like to know before someone operates on me, actually.

I've always been entertained by religion in the same way I would, say, a science fiction movie. Let people believe what they want. My problem arises when people with laughable basic assumptions about how the world works get into positions of control. Because once a religion gets under someone's skin, reason is no longer effective in getting them back again.

I'm not sure things were any better at any point in the past as far as the public at large is concerned. But our government DOES appear to be lining itself up for a "God vs. Allah" showdown. Thank God WE (the good Christian nations) are the enlightened ones, and THEY are the superstitious guys with silly beliefs. 'Cause theocracy is only bad if you're praying to the wrong God.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 04:17 pm UTC (link)
Well, this is democracy. So when 60% of people beleive that "GOD HATES SHRIMP", then you get the Republican party is going to find ways to exploit the anti-shrimp sentiment. You get a great synergy too because the people who hate shrimp are also probably equally irrational on economic issues, drug laws, and whether their government can lawfully murder them.

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[info]blakdove
2005-08-12 06:32 pm UTC (link)
But God DOES hate shrimp, silly! It's in Leviticus!

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-13 01:35 am UTC (link)
Yeah, thats what I'm saying. I think most people would say that such a beleif that the Supreme Being has it in for crustaceans is pretty absurd. I also think that people are willing to condemn homosexuality on the same grounds, while enjoying a nice plate of boiled shrimp. For some reason hating fags is fine, but loving shrimp is perfectly acceptable. Its congnitive dissonance, hypocrisy, and frankly, stupidity. I think most superstition requires this type of reasoning... or the lack thereof.

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[info]blakdove
2005-08-13 10:07 pm UTC (link)
Maybe God loves shrimp, and that's why it's forbidden to eat it?

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-13 11:38 pm UTC (link)
Hey, I like that idea. That also means that God really likes gay sex. Its just sooo good only he can have access.

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[info]blakdove
2005-08-12 03:32 pm UTC (link)
I'm just really, really tired of this argument. But I thought I'd comment anyway.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-12 04:14 pm UTC (link)
If I may ask, what about the argument makes you tired? What aspect of it is weak?

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[info]blakdove
2005-08-12 04:45 pm UTC (link)
Not YOUR argument. Just the debate in general. Your argument's just fine.

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[info]reality_asylum
2005-08-13 04:56 am UTC (link)
I agree.....


However, what's your thought on karma?

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-13 05:05 am UTC (link)
Karma only makes sense if you beleive in reincarnation.

Think of it this way: There are tons of bastards who have committed unthinkable attrocity and never got their comeuppance. I mean, Hitler, one of the world's worst specimines of human beings, only had his life's dream ruined. He died relatively pain-free on his own terms. That doesn't compare to the tens of millions of deaths he caused, not to mention the degree of suffering he loosed on the world. He avoided that suffering. He got off easy. He would have to live through at least 6 million ruined, painful, and wasted lives to begin to atone.

This lack of justice happens every day. Child abusers go to the grave rich, happy, and unpunished.

Now, to beleive that karma exists, one has to beleive that their next incarnations will suffer for their previous incarnation's failures. One must beleive that you cannot escape the cycle of karma. At least not by being a genocidal maniac.

Since I don't beleive in the afterlife and hideous monsters clearly do not get their comeuppance, I have to reject the idea of karma. It just doesn't make sense.

It does however make you feel happy about the world. I mean, after all, if assholes get the same shit they deal out, then the world is fair and rational. But, the unfortunate truth is that the world is unfair and irrational. I for one would rather be armed with this knowledge than give my ego a small measure of comfort and be comepletely unarmed against life's lack of destiny.

Some people say that causing suffering makes people suffer themselves and that even if they don't seem to be hurt publically, they are actually living a red hot nightmare. I don't buy that. Did anyone see Strom Thurmond just before his death? He seemed like one happy, segragationist cocksucker to me.

Thats pretty much my feeling on karma.

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[info]reality_asylum
2005-08-13 05:18 am UTC (link)
I must un friend you now.









ha hah ha ha ha.



Anyway, I actually do beleive in reincarnation and not just to fluff up the fact that assholes get away with murder or that the world is an irrational place. I have read extensively (not that is means much but the subject interests me) and I truly think that, apart from reading and observing certain aspects inl ife, karma does exist, but usually and most likely not immediately.


I think humans are here to learn from this planet and everything that you put out, comes back to you. wethere it be in this life time or the next and the one after that.


The main reason I asked you about karma is becasue it can be considered as a form of superstition as to behaving a certain way.....

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-13 05:28 am UTC (link)
I absolutely beleive that karma is a superstition. And I comepletely beleive that reincarnation is a superstition as well. I also think its just as dangerous as irrational hatred of homosexuals or a beleif that eating cows is cannibalism.

See, to me, I think that if humanity does possess a soul and this soul does go through multiple physical incarnations, then murder isn't wrong. I've heard a lot of arguments that it is still wrong because it leaves the soul with less chances to reach enlightmenment or that it is always painful and therefore immoral. I dunno, it makes life really cheap, to be frank.

It smacks very much of the monotheistic beleif that life is essentially worthless and that it is what comes after that is important. Reincarnationist philosophy is a lot better on this point than say, Christianity, but only slightly.

Also, it seems to me that it is a very sophisticated and very advanced way of reassuring oneself that we will not meet oblivion when our brain ceases to work. It seems significantly more likely to me that humans are very afraid to die, and thus convince themselves that they won't die. It doesn't mean that they won't die. It just means they can be comfortable about it during their life and finally when they do face death.

It is reminds me a little of people putting the earth at the center of the universe. I mean, do animals reincarnate too? Or are humans really the center of the universe? If animals do reincarnate, does this mean they have souls? If they don't reincarnate, does it mean that they lack souls (like most people belive)? Is consciousness itself what people think of the soul? And if this is the case, how do we account for the dreams and thoughts of animals?

Its a complex issue regarding a complex philosophy. I just think its a very sophisticated means of making people comfortable about losing consciousness for eternity.

Thanks for posting about this... you really got me thinking about this point.

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[info]reality_asylum
2005-08-14 06:21 am UTC (link)
See I see it a bit more differnetly than that.

Murder is not wrong, it is merely a learning stage. Raping and getting raped are also the same. I think that when you die, you dont go to some peaceful place, but you just come straight back intot he swing of things.


I actaully think that animals reincarnate.

I can absolutely see your p[oint as karma being a sophisticated way of christianity and I do agree that most people are afraid of dying- hence god and gods. However, in my experience and I cannot speak for others, I have seen some of my past lives and have met people that I've met before. I actaully used to nto beleive in reincarnation until many things started happening to me...

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[info]xlaluzx
2005-08-14 03:50 am UTC (link)
I like reading intelligently written posts like this. You certainly have strong opinions, but you reiterate that they are your opinions. I don't completely agree with your stance, being that I'm not an atheist, but I find it valuable to have people explain the reasoning backing up their beliefs because, otherwise, I'll never have that insight into their thoughts/actions. And as I see demonstrated over and over, it's easy it fear or just get angry at things that you don't understand, so that insight is especially valuable.
You mention "leaps of logic," insinuating lack of evidence to back up beliefs. I was talking to Fergus today, and I agree with him in that I like to have personal evidence gained by my own experience to back up my beliefs. And I do. Presbyterianism: didn't do much for me. That's why I don't go to church. Buddhism: a lot of it appealed to my intellect, but I had no personal proof that going through the motions of Buddhist rituals was getting me anywhere. Maybe it doesn't sound like the scientific process to you, but I didn't stick with the religion that I was born into for the sake of comfort and normality. Right now I practice a spirituality that gives me "results." I don't meditate because various Vedic scriptures suggest it; I meditate because it makes me happy, and call me a hedonist, but that's my ultimate goal.
~hannah

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-14 09:13 am UTC (link)
Well, I will grudgingly admit that there are benefits to superstition. A feeling of comfort (as discussed earlier... this can lead to better health), a focus on moral and correct action (this reduces crime and increases quality of life), and it inspires great works of art (although is by no means the only source of artistic greatness).

However, superstition is responsible for nearly all the world's worst attrocities. The exploitation of native peoples is justified by the belief that somehow one regional variation of mankind has the right to murder and rape the lives of another regional variation. Countless witch trials, hysterical mobs, and pogroms are all based on faulty legend. You show me a destructive, life-negating force in history, and I'll show you an ideology based on primitive rejection of logic.

I think superstition does considerable damage to humanity. I think it outweighs the benefits many times over. I'm not really asking you to change how you feel or change your lifestyle. I guess what I am advocating is that you are aware of the danger posed by throwing out reason and relying on false premises.

Also, not to throw stones at you or anything, but having a religious experience (perceiving angels, attaining nirvana, being tormented by demons, etc) is not sufficient proof of the worthiness or merit of a religion or spiritual practice. The human mind has a nasty habit of playing fast and loose with our fears and desires (think about dreams for instance). I would be suspicious about such things. These experiences can't be proven to be anything other than halucinations, self delusions, and waking dreams.

For instance, a friend of mine says a ghost lives in his house and that hes seen it hovering over him at night, paralyzing him with fear. I have no doubt at all that he experienced a being hovering over him, causing him paralysis. However, experiencing an event and actually proving an event are two different things entirely. Now, it makes more sense to me that he was suffering sleep paralysis, a common medical condition. Its explaination is simple, but he gets offended if you mention that sleep paralysis is common and that the same condition has been at the root of most sleep-time supernatural encounters. In ancient Europe, it was abduction and torment by Succubus and Incubus demons, who perched on the chest of their victims. In other parts, it was fairies, stealing the strength of their victim. In ancient China, it was a Hungry Ghost, devouring the chi of their victim. In modern times, it is often attributed to alien abduction, with the victim restrained and experimented upon. Appearantly, supernatural beings of all striples all follow a similar mode of operation that has the exact same effects of a common sleep disorder (common in people with his type of health). There must be a supernatural night-horror guild or something, enforcing a strict code of conduct.

Again, Im not trying to attack your beleifs or label you as misguided... I guess I just want to make sure that you are totally aware of your own experience, and not chasing gold at the end of rainbows that really just refracting light off of water vapor.

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first part
[info]erislore
2005-08-15 07:40 pm UTC (link)
First, I think it is extremely easy to oversimplify when you start talking about things like this. I don't think anyone can really say the world would be a better place if everyone just stopped believing X and started thinking Y. I think life is far too complex to say that.

I can only really imagine what the things you call superstitions really mean to people; but sometimes I imagine those things may be somewhat bound up in day-to-day survival. Judaism and Voodoo, as systems of belief, may provide benefit to some of their members... unlike branding one's genitals with cigars (although it is not entirely inconceivable that that might provide benefit to someone ;). I guess to really know, one would have to walk in some one's else's shoes, as you say.

Wishing people to simply accept secular ideas though, like one might accept a religion, stinks a little of conversion to me. I would rather individuals come to ideas of their own free will- not because some group tells them that certain ideas are obviously right... but because the ideas truly make sense and are valuable to them.

I agree very much with you on the idea of not asserting ideas forcefully, because I consider force as such very dangerous. For example: if a group can force someone to believe in evolution, as an example, then what is from stopping the same group down the line when the theory is improved, from denying the idea of a better theory? I could be wrong, but a lot of people seem to look to such theories as things that irrefutably "are" (like some people consider God irrefutably "is") ... when such ideas are only the best available theories now.

Not to mention, I think sometimes that trying to win people over to secular ideas (even if they are the most reasonable theories out there) is often a waste (of time and energy and sometimes money), especially when the population that holds the "backward" ideas, is probably comparatively small and quite tame. I could be in error to think this, but I think there are far more dangerous prospects than America being altered to a theocracy.

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second part
[info]erislore
2005-08-15 07:44 pm UTC (link)
Some secular people (and groups) who swear off religion and superstition sometimes come across themselves as being both religious, and rather "intolerant". At times I have heard such avowed rationalists praise the goodness of reason, but then instead of expending their energy in their own field in a practical way, will rather irrationally devote themselves to castigating those who do not share their own beliefs (and who are probably not likely to ever share their beliefs). I don't imagine, by the way, that this a great number of people; as I do not imagine there are a great many loud irrational mouths spouting at the 'godless'. Most people probably are fairly quiet about their beliefs and thoughts, whatever they are.

I admit a lot of religion and very religious people make me nervous, but I am not required to go to church or keep those beliefs; this is a kind of another story, but personally I have felt far more stifled by the public university system than I ever have by any religious group or person.

"In every country and every age, the priest has been hostile to liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot, abetting his abuses in return for protection to his own. It is easier to acquire wealth and power by this combination than by deserving them, and to effect this, they have perverted the purest religion ever preached to man into mystery and jargon, unintelligible to all mankind, and therefore the safer for their purposes"

I like this quote too... but I think the "priests" of this age are very seldom allied with churches or old world religion. Churches and old world religion no longer hold such power as they did, so in my mind the modern equivalent of the priest is much more likely to make alliance with other powers.

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[info]erislore
2005-08-16 12:17 am UTC (link)
I hope that didn't sound harsh; that wasn't my intention. I am not strong at argument.

I can tell that you feel strongly anti-superstition because you think it can be very harmful. I can see that. It's just in my own experience other people's superstitions have not much interfered in my life-- and it's hard to judge other how superstition has interfered in other people's lives from a distance.

Of dangerous things, superstition is not quite at the top of my list... but I certainly respect that it is meaningful to you to say something publicly about it. Or at least to ask people to question themselves on the beliefs they hold that could be considered superstitious.

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[info]chardarkminion
2005-08-16 12:21 am UTC (link)
I don't think you sounded harsh at all... in fact, I was really worried you weren't going to respond to that post. I thought -I- came off too harsh.

I do feel strongly about the issue though.

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[info]erislore
2005-08-16 04:42 pm UTC (link)
I don't think you come across as harsh either... only as being intent on the issue. It took me a while to respond because I was kind of in a blah mood this weekend.

I definitely understand feeling strongly about something though... as you maybe can tell I get a little defensive about the point of freedom... despite that fact that you weren't attacking it in any way.

For myself, I think some of my modes of experience could be considered superstitious, but I don't think this keeps me from learning about new theories. For example, sometimes around some chemically altered people, some primitive half of me, I think, believes they are possessed (for lack of a better word), but also I am aware it's just some effect to do with the chemicals of body and the brain; I don't attribute the sense of feeling like someone's possessed to demons, unless one considers demons as parts of an individual and not as a supernatural entity... although at certain times such situations have felt extremely eerie.

I am also predisposed to a sort of animism... but just because the wind tends to take on living qualities to me doesn't mean I haven't enjoyed studying meteorology before; I have done that and enjoyed it intensely.

In other words, I experience things maybe in a primitive sort of way sometimes, but that does not stop me from wishing to learn about things by available means.

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